tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post8936465842612515410..comments2024-02-28T02:22:20.886-08:00Comments on homunculus: Entropy strikes at the New YorkerPhilip Ballhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09986655706443117158noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-10570569344065342382013-05-13T10:09:45.938-07:002013-05-13T10:09:45.938-07:00I may add that in an email to us, which we quoted ...I may add that in an email to us, which we quoted in our article, Wissner-Gross wrote that he believes that causal entropic forces are involved in biophysics. He wrote:<br /><br />Our hypothesis is that causal entropic forces provide a useful—and remarkably simple—new biophysical model for explaining sophisticated intelligent behavior in human and nonhuman animals.<br /><br />So your statement "When Marcus and Davis say that 'There is no evidence yet that that causal entropic processes play a role in the dynamics of individual neurons or muscular motions', they seem to be under the impression that the authors have claimed otherwise," does not correspond to Wissner-Gross' own understanding of his own work.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05272108634138983933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-92090502758101052132013-05-13T07:00:26.663-07:002013-05-13T07:00:26.663-07:00Dear Philip,
We are baffled by your post, and can...Dear Philip,<br /><br />We are baffled by your post, and can't help but wonder whether you forgot to do your homework.<br /><br />In particular, you write above that "The basic problem here seems to be that Marcus and Davis assume that when Wissner-Gross and Freer talk about “intelligence”, they must be talking about the same thing that psychologists see day to day in humans.", as if W-G and Freer weren't making such claims.<br /><br />But they were! Please take few seconds view this video, linked in our story, from a newly-launched Wissner-Gross company that was spawned by the paper) at http://www.entropica.com.<br /><br />wherein you will see (and hear) this dramatic opening<br /><br />"Entropica is a powerful new kind of artificial intelligence that can reproduce complex human behaviors ... Entropica can walk upright, use tools, cooperate, play games, make useful social introductions, globally deploy a fleet, even earn money trading stocks, all without being told how to do so."<br /><br />It is this hype that we were responding to, and the same hype that undermines your counterargument. Entropica's claims simply aren't modest.<br /><br />-- Gary Marcus <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12459901491713235289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-85937060467221742942013-05-13T06:53:56.751-07:002013-05-13T06:53:56.751-07:00Philip --
First, have you seen Wissner-Gross' ...Philip --<br />First, have you seen Wissner-Gross' video?<br />http://www.entropica.com/<br />He claims there that the cart simulation indicates that there are promising applications of Entropica (his software) to upright walking, and that other simulations show applications to manufacturing, social cooperation, social networking, military deployment, games playing, and financial investment. So "single-handedly smite problems that have stymied researchers for decades” is hardly hyperbole.<br /><br />Second, if all he wants to claim is that the <i>constraint</i> leads to intelligent behavior, then why bring in a connection to physics? He could have presented it as a paper in AI or cognitive science, claiming that this is a useful search heuristic. The claim that this principle as physics is relevant to intelligence in organisms is only meaningful if you believe that <br />biophysics depends on causal entropic forces.<br /><br />Third, in Wissner-Gross's simulations the "weirdly intelligent behavior" is built in to the way he defines the option space. In the simulation with three disks that imitates the ape using a tool getting food out of a tube, he defines the option space as maximized when the disk labelled "ape" is in contact with the disk labelled "food". Causal entropic forces are defined as those that lead to a state of maximum options. Not surprisingly, therefore, if you apply the causal entropic forces, you attain what you have defined as the state of maximum options, namely the ape disk is in contact with the food disk. If he had wanted to device a simulation that imitated someone putting a lid on a jar to keep the contents safe, he could have defined the option space in such a way that that is maximized when the lid is on the jar. It's perfectly circular.<br /><br />-- Ernie DavisAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05272108634138983933noreply@blogger.com