tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post8420638822204864080..comments2024-02-28T02:22:20.886-08:00Comments on homunculus: Is minor-key music sad for everyone?Philip Ballhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09986655706443117158noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-38322234346778228482014-05-14T09:35:01.010-07:002014-05-14T09:35:01.010-07:00Why do Minor Chords Sound Sad?
The Theory of Musi...Why do Minor Chords Sound Sad?<br /><br />The Theory of Musical Equilibration states that in contrast to previous hypotheses, music does not directly describe emotions: instead, it evokes processes of will which the listener identifies with.<br /><br />A major chord is something we generally identify with the message, “I want to!” The experience of listening to a minor chord can be compared to the message conveyed when someone says, "No more." If someone were to say the words "no more" slowly and quietly, they would create the impression of being sad, whereas if they were to scream it quickly and loudly, they would be come across as furious. This distinction also applies for the emotional character of a minor chord: if a minor harmony is repeated faster and at greater volume, its sad nature appears to have suddenly turned into fury.<br /><br />The Theory of Musical Equilibration applies this principle as it constructs a system which outlines and explains the emotional nature of musical harmonies. For more information you can google Theory of Musical Equilibration.<br /><br />Bernd Willimekwillimekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16594456745352251249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-44437077317317032802013-08-17T08:26:21.166-07:002013-08-17T08:26:21.166-07:00In addition to my last post, I am announcing that ...In addition to my last post, I am announcing that the English translation of our work "Musik und Emotionen - Studien zur Strebetendenz-Theorie" is now published:<br />Music and Emotions - Research on the Theory of Musical Equilibration<br />You can get it free at the link: <br />http://www.willimekmusic.de/music-and-emotions.pdf<br />Bernd Willimek<br />willimekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16594456745352251249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-34386913597889667792013-08-17T08:26:12.662-07:002013-08-17T08:26:12.662-07:00In addition to my last post, I am announcing that ...In addition to my last post, I am announcing that the English translation of our work "Musik und Emotionen - Studien zur Strebetendenz-Theorie" is now published:<br />Music and Emotions - Research on the Theory of Musical Equilibration<br />You can get it free at the link: <br />http://www.willimekmusic.de/music-and-emotions.pdf<br />Bernd Willimek<br />willimekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16594456745352251249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-11980628883940121802013-08-17T08:26:12.330-07:002013-08-17T08:26:12.330-07:00In addition to my last post, I am announcing that ...In addition to my last post, I am announcing that the English translation of our work "Musik und Emotionen - Studien zur Strebetendenz-Theorie" is now published:<br />Music and Emotions - Research on the Theory of Musical Equilibration<br />You can get it free at the link: <br />http://www.willimekmusic.de/music-and-emotions.pdf<br />Bernd Willimek<br />willimekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16594456745352251249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-38377623912664757282013-03-30T11:00:16.722-07:002013-03-30T11:00:16.722-07:00If you want to answer the question, why minor soun...If you want to answer the question, why minor sounds sad, there is a problem, that some minor chords don't sound sad. The solution of this problem is the Strebetendenz-Theory. It says, that music is not able to transmit emotions directly. Music can just convey processes of will, but the listener fills the operations of will with emotions. Similarly, when you watch a dramatic film in television, the film cannot transmit emotions directly, but processes of will. The spectator perceives the processes of will dyed with emotions - identifying with the protagonist. When you listen music you identify too, but with an anonymous will now.<br /><br />If you perceive a major chord, you normally identify with the will "Yes, I want to...". If you perceive a minor chord, you identify normally with the will "I don't want anymore...". If you play the minor chord softly, you connect the will "I don't want anymore..." with a feeling of sadness. If you play the minor chord loudly, you connect the same will with a feeling of rage. You distinguish in the same way, you would distinguish, if someone would say the words "I don't want anymore..." the first time softly and the second time loudly.<br /><br />This processes of will in the music were unknown until the Strebetendenz-Theory discovered them. And therefore many researches in psychology of music failed. If you want more information about the emotions of other chords and get the answer, why music touches us emotionally, you can download the essay "Vibrating Molecules and the Secret of their Feelings" for free. You can get it on the link: <br />Http://www.willimekmusic.homepage.t-online.de/Striving/Striving.doc<br /><br />Enjoy reading<br /><br />Bernd Willimek <br /><br />willimekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16594456745352251249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-64382822511300275632011-09-18T07:20:22.405-07:002011-09-18T07:20:22.405-07:00EAV Pro Audio stock a wide range of Stage Monitors...EAV Pro Audio stock a wide range of <a href="http://www.e-av.co.uk/speaker-systems/stage-monitors-1" rel="nofollow">Stage Monitors</a>, Mixing desk, Power Amplifiers, audio interfaces, Wireless microphones and wired microphones along with a massive range of home and professional recording equipment.Prizmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15346367910231161904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-65979482477906006752010-07-21T05:16:00.693-07:002010-07-21T05:16:00.693-07:00"They compared the frequency ratios of the mo..."They compared the frequency ratios of the most prominent acoustic peaks in speech (called formants) with those in Western classical music and Finnish folk songs."<br /><br />Wow, I did not know Finnish folk songs were known for THAT ASPECT even outside of Finland:-PUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12567653216734770999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-79510091849025007342010-05-16T07:39:41.072-07:002010-05-16T07:39:41.072-07:00All songs in minor keys make me feel sad. They see...All songs in minor keys make me feel sad. They seem to have an emotional effect. I avoid them completely.Iridescent Spirithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16864042871736212074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-44910201929915726762010-03-22T03:46:40.255-07:002010-03-22T03:46:40.255-07:00mattoldham,
Sorry, I've only just noticed your...mattoldham,<br />Sorry, I've only just noticed your comment. This is probably too late now to register, but you should check out this paper:<br />Huron, D. & Veltman, J. (2006). <br />"A cognitive approach to Medieval mode: Evidence for an historical antecedent to the major/minor system." Empirical Musicology Review, Vol. 1, No. 1, pp. 33-55.<br />It doesn't really go into the happy/sad associations of major/minor, but explores when and how the major/minor modes themselves emerged from the many modes in use during the Middle Ages. The text is available online at Huron's site:<br />http://musicog.ohio-state.edu/Huron/CV/publications.html<br />Hope it helps!Philip Ballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986655706443117158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-17132615360432778162010-02-23T12:12:14.936-08:002010-02-23T12:12:14.936-08:00Hi there, thank you for posting this interesting b...Hi there, thank you for posting this interesting blog! The title of my dissertation is "Happy & Sad - Do these descriptions describe Major & minor tonality accurately?". And it is very hard to find research on this subject. Can i ask all the followers and the author of this blog, at what era in history did the connotations 'happy & sad' become attached to Major & minor modes? I assume it may have been around 16th century, when the Renaissance created more 'depth' in music theory? But that is a guess, does anyone know when for sure this may have been? Thank you all!mattoldhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08208690550343820433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-50839760894868248472010-02-04T03:04:59.420-08:002010-02-04T03:04:59.420-08:00"William/Jim: sorry, I responded to your comm..."<i>William/Jim: sorry, I responded to your comments while inadvertently logged in as my wife Julia. She'd never be as rude as that, Jim, naturally.</i>"<br /><br />I always thought you were a big girl; shall we call you Julip or Philia?<br /><br />:))JimmyGirohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01548795180321590463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-69366657668845585322010-02-02T15:00:35.558-08:002010-02-02T15:00:35.558-08:00I was just meandering around the web looking for i...I was just meandering around the web looking for information related to general affective qualities of intervals and suddenly bumped into this blog. After giving a fast read I felt inspired to write some fast lines which I had to correct after reading them myself... I still see them and get the feeling that if I had more time I´d express myself more accurately, but I don´t know if it´s the right place. <br /> Anyway, the thing is that apart from being a musical composer I´m also very fond at theorizing, but not just for it´s own sake... my motivation is oriented at discovering new ways of perceiving music through the creation of different paradigms that could explain music and it´s functions (apart from also acquiring more ideas for composition). Now I´m particularly interested in the relation between psychology and music, and the possible paradigms that could be created by their fusion. I have already made what I think are some very interesting paradigms, mixing music with mathematics and physics. But now my aim is at psychology and alchemy... In my creative search I have found many useful ways to expand my musical vocabulary and a more rational system of musical composition (at least for me). Do you think your book could prove useful for my purposes? if the answer is affirmative then, where can I get it? Is it possible to read a review or some of your writings on the web?<br /> I´d be pleased to share my points of view.El Prictohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14782557934400166881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-29789870717110943012010-02-02T02:47:07.293-08:002010-02-02T02:47:07.293-08:00pricto-
You've raised a lot of interesting poi...pricto-<br />You've raised a lot of interesting points, to which I can only respond (in the time available) - my book The Music Instinct is for you! I'd be glad to hear what you make if it.<br /><br />William/Jim: sorry, I responded to your comments while inadvertently logged in as my wife Julia. She'd never be as rude as that, Jim, naturally.Philip Ballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986655706443117158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-38014675204999247202010-02-01T12:46:29.312-08:002010-02-01T12:46:29.312-08:00Julia,
Thanks! That is very obvious now that I t...Julia,<br /><br />Thanks! That is very obvious now that I think about it. For some reason I was thinking in terms of major vs minor triad instead of major vs minor scale. Whoops!Gamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16929144832139880834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-30964404518681287422010-01-29T11:59:02.265-08:002010-01-29T11:59:02.265-08:00oh... I almost forgot, I´m venezuelan/spanish and ...oh... I almost forgot, I´m venezuelan/spanish and been living in Spain for eight years now, and let me tell you, flamenco minor music is not very happy even for spaniards. The spanish gypsy musical subculture really enjoys to cry and be sad at their parties. The type of music that a cultural group creates and uses reflects their general psychological profile as a whole.<br />Nowadays there are subcultures of everything here in Spain, like in most western countries there are groups of people for any type of music. Gypsy music is not the majority, ugly transcultural pop is.<br /><br /> And... there is a degree of dissonance between the notes of the equal tempered system and the harmonic series, of these intervals only the octave is congruent. So it may be valid to consider minor intervals as more dissonant than major ones in relation to the harmonic series or our natural/happy unconscious ruler.El Prictohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14782557934400166881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-62324393394303320532010-01-29T11:44:06.757-08:002010-01-29T11:44:06.757-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.El Prictohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14782557934400166881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-7890397757720977522010-01-29T11:40:42.621-08:002010-01-29T11:40:42.621-08:00Who doesn´t like spicy food here? Why in Mexico an...Who doesn´t like spicy food here? Why in Mexico and India food tends to be so spicy? Some types of french cheese are intolerable for most westerners... Why did Rossini was also a wonderful cook? The functional aspect of music is crucial in evaluating the psychological responses of listeners. <br />As a composer I´ve faced the trouble of having to deal with the particularities of diferent social groups, and it seems inevitable for me not to agree with Jim in this matter.<br />It's very improbable that the laws of physics will change for us, the hamonic series will always have more and stronger major intervals than minor intervals. Our only harmonic ruler is this natural phenomenon, an invisible crystaline mold. <br />Organic life is very different from minerals, basically because is constantly mutating. Some of its transformations are in accordance with obvious natural laws and others are quite against these laws, but the ruler is there even if it does´t match with life´s idiosincratic nature. <br /><br />Is music a comunication channel between energy and matter?<br /><br />Maybe this is a better question...<br /><br />Minor key music is based on a scale that combines minor and major intervals, has a perfect fifth (which sounds more major than minor, in comparison with it´s inversion the perfect fourth; also in early medieval music these intervals were considered major and minor respectively) and a major second, here traditional music theory is misleading. The traditional minor key should be considered a mixed scale with a majority of minor intervals.<br /><br />But what is major and minor when for westerners the true measuring system is an equal division of the interval of an octave? This is traditionally called "Equal Temperament", and it throws us into a void of misunderstanding unless we adapt our whole perception to it, becoming slaves of this artificial ruler (which is much more rational than the harmonic series). <br />This is all non-sense I´ll better stop here... so bye!!El Prictohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14782557934400166881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-68853407746317991752010-01-29T04:48:59.031-08:002010-01-29T04:48:59.031-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.El Prictohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14782557934400166881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-6648398414457800302010-01-29T04:06:34.142-08:002010-01-29T04:06:34.142-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.El Prictohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14782557934400166881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-31957769872164352072010-01-29T04:05:36.602-08:002010-01-29T04:05:36.602-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.El Prictohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14782557934400166881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-7608483724934963922010-01-27T15:55:38.950-08:002010-01-27T15:55:38.950-08:00William-
Sensory dissonance is a phenomenon that s...William-<br />Sensory dissonance is a phenomenon that stems from beating of closely spaced frequencies - clearly that only works if they are simultaneous (or at least that they overlap significantly). <br /><br />Jim-<br />It's hard to know whether you're being facetious or not (do you find people often say that to you?). But I guess the real point is that the kinds of minor-key music I mean here are described by the cultures concerned as being happy. (People who like to sit through the Vagina Monologues presumably also say that they like it, not that they've chosen to be miserable). We might like to think 'Oh they're just saying that - surely they're miserable really'. But can it be meaningful to deny that someone is happy if they say they are? Sure, people repress stuff, but a whole culture in denial about whether its music makes it feel better...?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10252329247513927510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-46563028565691085852010-01-14T03:20:46.578-08:002010-01-14T03:20:46.578-08:00"And when faced with the fact that some cultu..."<i>And when faced with the fact that some cultures, such as Spanish and Slavic, use minor keys for happy music, he offered the patronizing suggestion that such rustic people were inured to a hard life and didn’t expect to be happy.</i>"<br /><br />You say Cooke's view is chauvinistic, yet you dismiss the very point of some cults and cultures that choose to be nihilistic as a mode of virtue.<br /><br />Feminists are quite 'happy' to sit through a performance of the "Vagina Monologues"; and various other puritanical religions will make virtue out of misery. Is it not inevitable that music makers compose for their audiences prejudices?<br /><br />The problem is that you are measuring the correlation of musical key and emotion, via the rubber ruler of 'happiness'.<br /><br />Imagine writing music, poetry, or science, for a sadist and a masochist. You would still have your inherent modes of musical intonation, as would your respective clients, but the product must reflect on whose culture pays the piper.JimmyGirohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01548795180321590463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26741618.post-9827977889869252152010-01-13T18:01:07.384-08:002010-01-13T18:01:07.384-08:00Also, they assume that the ratios of frequencies s...<i>Also, they assume that the ratios of frequencies sounded simultaneously in speech (what in music are called harmonic intervals) can be compared with the ratios of frequencies sounded sequentially in music (melodic intervals).</i> <br /><br />I wonder what problems you have with this assumption? I can't see why that bit of minor-key-dissonance would act differently whether sequentially or simultaneously, except that it might take a little longer to establish it sequentially. I'm sure you have good reasons, though, so I'm curious.<br /><br />(I immediately thought of this study where 9 month olds were played both sad and happy music to see if they would react differently. Unfortunately, they did not control for much, as the happier songs were up-tempo and the sadder songs were down-tempo.<br /><br /><a href="http://news.byu.edu/archive08-Oct-babymusic.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://news.byu.edu/archive08-Oct-babymusic.aspx</a> )Gamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16929144832139880834noreply@blogger.com